Bryce Warren Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Ah yes, thank you Coach that's advice I never stray from. I learned a while ago unfortunately how moving too quickly can really mess things up. Injuries, stagnant progression, suffered through that and it wasn't fun. That's the reason I've taken a huge step back to complete foundation, and I plan on going through F1-4. I'm not sure where F1-4 go specifically (if they go towards IMU or not), so for my own personal goals I'm looking for the best way to work towards the IMU gradually. If you could give your professional insight on this skill and how to achieve it that would be excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Without a spotter, make a dream machine when the time comes. Doing Shoulderstand to hang as a negative is tough (though HS to hang is tougher). I played with them with my feet on the inside of the straps but to be honest they were not of the quality that was necessary to progress so I stopped (too much). Basically don't worry about these until you have insane pulling power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Palutke Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 You're the one that turned this into a hypothetical situation. Progressions are about training up to something. Just like you go from bench dips to full dips. I did not ask how to train for an IMU, I asked about how to get to that level. You've misunderstood everything I've said thus far, and have said nothing about the actual topic. As of right now, I see no evidence to show that assisted pelicans are out of reach after MU training. Footing can be changed according to strength. I also practiced inclined assisted pelicans a few years ago when I was messing around and not so serious, and there were no problems. Starting at an incline will be well within reason. I might repeat myself here and don't want to distract you. those pelican progressions are really evil. the thing is even in an inclined position they'll gonna immensly stress out your biceps tendon. the worst is that you'll often wont recognice that you've teared your tendon even if you are able to perform the first progression in an inclined way. I totally understand you. i have some long term goals and i also want to gain some knowledge about them now.but it looks like you do not only want to gain the knowledge but start training with the first progressions.more experienced people like josh only want to protect you from insuery. on the other side it's his body. this is a forum about gst, he asked a question, he got some warnings. so he should propably just get his answers.otherwise gst would become the next super mysterious wing tsun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Warren Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 I said a couple times as well that I'm not starting any of these progressions right now. I'm not a beginner, I know what my limits are and when I'm moving too quickly. I take my time with my training, and am not in a rush to get injured. The only exercises I will be doing in the next little while is some false-grip training to prepare for the beginning curl stages. The curling movements have to begin somewhere, and since BTGB has inverted curls as number 1 on the list, I will begin with those (when I do begin). Again, very basic and definitely not beyond my limits even right now. The warnings are taken care of now, so as you said, anyone have some answers that haven't been discussed? EDIT: Blairbob, it's not the pulling power I'm focused on, otherwise I could begin many places. Curling is much different, and there seem to be quite a few gaps in this section. Seems the only people who could give the proper insight would be Coach or one of his students who's practiced this skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 A small correction: the first curling progression in BTGB is actually the inverted chin-up. Inverted curl is the bottom half of the reverse MU and is much more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I don't post on here looking for confrontation. See it all the time on here, tell it how it is. If you have knowledge on the topic I've displayed and think you can help, great! If not, I don't see the point in saying "don't worry about it, it's not within your reach". Not confronting, just saying why post if you're not going to help? On another note, if someone here has achieved this skill, and knows the direction in which to get it then post it up! Otherwise I'll have to go with the route that was already discussed, and see how it goes Joshua did not say it was not within your reach, he mentioned that mastering the rope climb is a must and he did never put you down. I understand that you just want information and progressions, but let's be honest here; you probably would attemt the progressions if Joshua would have listed them, I know I would have. Even if I'm wrong, Joshua answered the best way he could, based on the information he was given (you said you had a straddle BL and a muscle up, which is beginner skills; beginners tend to try things that are out of their league and get injured). Even if Joshuas post was irrelevant, which I disagree with, there is no reason to get confrontational. If that was not your intention, that was my and probably Joshuas perception as well. Keep in mind, Joshuas outranks most of us in terms of strength and information regarding training advanced ring strength. I am sorry if I just made the situation worse, I just don't think Joshua should get that type of response for trying to help and keeping you from injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 To help though, I would say:get the inverted chin up with false gripget handstand pushups on ringsget a slow backwards roll to supportget the right elbow prep (as you mentioned coaches IC prep) when you have this, negatives should not be a problem, even though you do not have access to mats or a lot of spaceyou can also do slow muscle ups to back lever, and do feet assisted pelicans correct me if I'm wrong, there is plenty of more things you can do, rope climb etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Warren Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Alright, I think I have the information I need to program things properly when the time comes. Long process but definitely something to look forward to. Thanks for the responses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 First thing's first: Know that by focusing on something like this right now, you are going to take away from your foundational work. That's just a fact. Regardless of whether you decide to incorporate something like dumbbell curls, which can be extremely helpful, just continue to make things easier and break down the movement into individual movements. 1) elbow flexion If you're intent on bodyweight only, I would work on bodyweight bicep curls with your rings. I have a youtube video that explains those. I would personally recommend you use both these AND dumbbell biceps curls, being sure to start from a completely straight arm position. I would say that after you can curl at least 30% of your body weight in each arm, AND can do bodyweight bicep curls starting with your body parallel with the ground, you can consider doing leaning pelicans, which are WAAAAY easier than the horizontal supported exercise. You will find that you will have trouble pulling out of the bottom, but will not have trouble lowering down into the bottom. That is fine... with time your pullout depth will increase. I HIGHLY suggest keeping your pullout at the same lean as your full negative. This is VERY stressful on the sternum and chest, as you will find out, and you really need to give that tissue time to prepare itself for that strain. I would suggest that you buy a rope from knot and rope supply... http://www.knotandrope.com/store/pc/home.asp You can get the rope by the foot, and shipping is cheap. I'd get 5-6 feet of rope and just do pull ups on it for now. This will be enough rope for everything you need to do in training. Seriously. You'll be able to hang it from your pull up bar or a squat rack quite easily, with rope to spare. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Warren Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Well we all have our goals right? I'm sure not everyone will only follow foundation down to the t, but I will of course finish them regardless of my personal goals. I don't set many, so I'll be building brick by brick to not complicate things and overwork myself. That out of the way, excellent advice. I was wondering if those regular bicep curls were going to be the way to fill the gap. I have seen your video on them and have used them in my earlier training. As for the rope, I'll be getting on that asap. Thanks for the input, puts my mind at ease knowing there won't be gaps I'm struggling to jump over. It's great that these are also progressions that I could easily begin after the cycle I've just started. Soon enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Yeah, those body weight curls in Joshua's video was what I meant when I said ring curls and eventually elevating the feet to inverted. They are a safer alternative to supported pelicans although supported pelicans can easily be scaled to a safe level as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I've just found a great video on tips for the inverted MU. Watch the whole thing because he shows you techniques. I made the mistake of trying to curl right away without retracting/rolling the shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Mainente Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 i don't know how much can the back roll helps if you start with bend arms.You can do it starting from straight arms and do the roll backward. Or better you can try to do the backward roll from static inverted hang, from here is necessary a certain level of elbow flexion but i discourage you to try it if you are not well prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Warren Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Yeah, those body weight curls in Joshua's video was what I meant when I said ring curls and eventually elevating the feet to inverted. They are a safer alternative to supported pelicans although supported pelicans can easily be scaled to a safe level as well.Sorry, misunderstood cause feet elevation can be done with both exercises you mentioned. What would be the major difference between leaning pelicans and regular ring bicep curls? Awesome video btw, never really thought about the shoulder positioning. This'll make weighted bicep curls much more fun to work, more to focus on than just curl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 The ring curls don't stress the inner elbows like the leaning pelicans do which will be safer for the biceps tendon and brachialis tendon. It's like comparing the supinated grip BL to a supinated grip FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Chubb Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 This is interesting and that video helped a lot! I'll be working on these soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryce Warren Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 Hm, obvious answer to a not so thought out question haha, wasn't really thinking about the similarity to BL positioning. I didn't lean too much when I did them in the past so it never really stressed my elbows much. Of course that'd change with every few inches you go closer to being horizontal. I found those to be one of my favorite movements so far, can't wait to get back to them eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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