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Jeff Walker

Muscle Up Transition

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Karri Kytömaa

There are also safety reasons for Joshua's approach. It is extremely easy to overtrain with muscle ups. My elbow pain reminds me of it every once in a while.

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Bryce Warren

Wouldn't it be more productive and give better results to take a small step back and focus on slow negatives instead of trying to do the full MU while kipping? Correct me if I'm wrong but would that not give proper tension through the transition?

 

Also I'm not sure how your dips are and how deep you can go, flexibility in this can also be a limiting factor. I do a couple sets of 1 with slow full ROM regular dips (sinking into it and holding the bottom position for a few seconds) to make sure my shoulders aren't tightening up in that position.

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GoldenEagle
 

 

You have to learn how to pull your elbows back, when you are at the top of your pull up position (hands at your chest). For me the advice to "lean forward" was the wrong cue (like it seems to be for you). You can hang there till the end of the day trying to "lean forward" by sticking your head between the rings without anything happening. Apparently, pulling your elbows back (and using your anterior deltoids (?) to lift your weight a couple of inches to get past the sticking point into a very low dip) with your full weight pulling you down is not something we do naturally. In my case, in the beginning I needed support from my toes (like Mat Train advices) to develop the "feel"; I used a basket ball to create an instable platform. I also, in the beginning, made the move (elbow pull back) quickly and deliberately. Later on it became slower and more controlled.

 

Just adding to Frits's post:

 

To pull the elbows back the posterior deltiods are needed rather than the anterior deltiods. Think scapular retraction or rolling your shoulders backward.

 

With that said....deep russian dips and full range of motion with false grip pull ups will help build the strength needed for the transition.

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Jeff Walker

when I am at the top of my pull up what initiates the transition?   I still feel like I am stuck there.  My arms are vertical and my elbows pointing down.  How do I get past this?  What is the cue?  Do I try to roll shoulders, Do I try to retract scapulas, am I very confused and getting very close to giving it up.

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Mats Trane

when I am at the top of my pull up.

Where is this? Make sure you pull the rings to the middle and the lower part of your chest. Also, when going into the transition keep the rings as close as you can to your body. Feel the rings touching side of your ribs.

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Jeff Walker

When I cant pull the rings down any further.  

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Joshua Naterman

... getting very close to giving it up.

Just keep practicing. 

 

You in the middle of experiencing what it feels like to spend weeks and weeks and weeks allowing your body to make all the modifications it needs for a particular movement. You haven't been training like this long enough to see that you are still making progress.

 

Keep working on RC/PE1. It will help you achieve proper chest to bar pull ups. Start holding your chest against the bar and continuing to try to pull higher and lean forward a little for just a few seconds (3-5), and then lower back down.

 

Eventually, the day will come when you end up at the bottom of a dip, and you'll just straighten your arms and be like "Whoa, I wasted a whole lot of time worrying about something that was actually really simple. I just didn't realize I needed this kind of patience."

 

If you want to be a quitter, go be a quitter, but that kind of attitude is going to set you up for a mediocre life experience. Forget about the future, focus on what you need to be doing, and have some faith in the process. When you learn to live like that, and learn what all of that REALLY means, your life will be easy and so will your training.

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Daniel Burnham

Can you do a high enough pull-up? You should be able to pull to mid chest then just kinda roll over the rings. Eventually you will get strong enough that you don't need to do much of a roll and the push is initiated straight from the pull-up.

You seem to be refusing some very good advice on here and have struggled with the muscle up longer than you should. Most people I have tought and who have gone through the progressions learn it in a few days.

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Connor Davies

how do i shift it fwd thru the rings. Amy ideas?

Practice your russian dips....

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Jeff Walker

Can you do a high enough pull-up? You should be able to pull to mid chest then just kinda roll over the rings. Eventually you will get strong enough that you don't need to do much of a roll and the push is initiated straight from the pull-up.

You seem to be refusing some very good advice on here and have struggled with the muscle up longer than you should. Most people I have tought and who have gone through the progressions learn it in a few days.

 

I dont know, I think so.  I can do about 5-7 weighted False grip pullups with about 20lbs.  About 2 weeks ago, I was able to get an ugly muscleup but I havnt been able to do it since then.   Here is a video of my muscleups.  http://tiny.cc/d8oi1w   I tweaked something after these videos and havenet been able to get to this point since.  

 

Anyway, You can see where I get stuck and I have tried everything and cant get past it.  I feel there is no good exercise to target this ROM.  Russian dips to elbows dont feel beneficial becuase its getting the elbows from pointing down to pointing back and upward thats the challenge.  I feel like I have the strength to do it (maybe not) but I am missing something.  

 

Ive tried several different transitional exercises aside from dips and FG pullups.

 

1) MU on ball, FritsMBreccomendation to stand on a ball and try to lift weight - feels impossible! This is where I am stuck.

2) I used Iron Cross trainers I do a slow muscleup - they feel goodbecuase it allows me to pull my shoulders back and roll over my hands with the added leverage of the forearm support concerns me that its not going to carry over.  I am lowering the holes to make it harder

3) Ive done the feet on stool with  Feet in front of me  - this is to hard becuase it pushes my weight more backward and I need to get it fwd and thru the rings.  

4) Feet on stool with feet behind me - feels better and truer to actual MU but  but the added support from the feet feels like Its too easy even as I try to lessen it.

5) Ive been doing MU negatives, I can do about 7-8 before getting tired - dont seem to be helping the full MU

6) Ive tried to do assisted MU on a dip machine ok but again not sure if it will carry over

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Daniel Burnham

Your video is not accessible to me.

 

Russian dips are super beneficial.  Post a video of those.  

 

Also doing very high pullups will help.  Rope climbs will get these for you.  Doing weighted with a smaller range of motion isn't nearly as good as doing the full ROM.

 

My best advice is to change your way of thinking which is very hard.  You need to stop considering the muscle up a main goal.  Just think of it as a more advanced pullup.  I would think of it as a blip on the way to more advanced strength.  If you do all the previous progressions correctly it is just another step and you can move one to something cooler.

 

Its been said a ton but Foundation series will give you a guide to this road.  There are many people who play on rings and work very hard to just barely achieve a muscle up then they are barely able to progress from there.  After a few years all they can show is the ability to do a few muscle ups in a row.  If this is ok with you then feel free to proceed as you are.  If you want to achieve more then follow my advice.

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Jake Lawrance

I doubt my problem was the same as yours but you look like you're pronating your wrists prematurely at the top. Try to keep them neutral all the way up and try to push your chest up and out a little. I suspect you'll find when comparing pull ups to chin ups,  you can go higher with chin-ups. So basically, wait until you feel your body is high before pronating and rotating the rings outwards. If that doesn't help, listen to the pros!  ;)

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Joshua Slocum

This bears reiterating: it's a muscle-up, not a technique-up. 

 

Keep working hard, especially on RC progressions, and in a year or two you'll wonder what the big fuss was about. 

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Jeff Walker

Well I can climb a rope right now with legs in straddle. Granted i cannot do cirques yet but with that in mind, Im not nearly as confident as you that RC leadup progressions will help when incsn aleady perfrlorm the final move

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Joshua Naterman

This bears reiterating: it's a muscle-up, not a technique-up. 

 

Keep working hard, especially on RC progressions, and in a year or two you'll wonder what the big fuss was about. 

Everything is a technique. If it has a specific way to do it, it's a technique. 

 

Having said that, this thread makes me  :facepalm: so hard that I have bruises on my forehead. Just keep working false grip pull ups and russian dips until their ROMs overlap. The end. Jesus.

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Coach Sommer

Your video is not accessible to me.

 

Russian dips are super beneficial.  Post a video of those.  

 

Also doing very high pullups will help.  Rope climbs will get these for you.  Doing weighted with a smaller range of motion isn't nearly as good as doing the full ROM.

 

My best advice is to change your way of thinking which is very hard.  You need to stop considering the muscle up a main goal.  Just think of it as a more advanced pullup.  I would think of it as a blip on the way to more advanced strength.  If you do all the previous progressions correctly it is just another step and you can move one to something cooler.

 

Its been said a ton but Foundation series will give you a guide to this road.  There are many people who play on rings and work very hard to just barely achieve a muscle up then they are barely able to progress from there.  After a few years all they can show is the ability to do a few muscle ups in a row.  If this is ok with you then feel free to proceed as you are.  If you want to achieve more then follow my advice.

 

Perfect advice.  

 

But it is always surprising to me how many people are not willing to forgo their desire for immediate gratification in order to obtain what they truly want down the road.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Coach Sommer

Well I can climb a rope right now with legs in straddle. Granted i cannot do cirques yet but with that in mind, Im not nearly as confident as you that RC leadup progressions will help when incsn aleady perfrlorm the final move

 

Perhaps.  It will depend upon the quality and volume of your RC work.  

 

If you have truly mastered RC (video please), then your MU difficulties are technical in nature and would be best corrected by following Daniel's advice.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Joshua Slocum

Well I can climb a rope right now with legs in straddle. Granted i cannot do cirques yet but with that in mind, Im not nearly as confident as you that RC leadup progressions will help when incsn aleady perfrlorm the final move

 

If you had nothing further to gain from the RC progressions, you'd already be done with them. Since you're not done with the progressions, your pulling strength will clearly benefit from finishing them. 

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Keilani Gutierrez

if you -were- doing the RC progressions and seeing the propioception it creates as well as the forearm endurance/strength along with the upper/middle back development, you'd have a different opinion.

because that's all you're stating right now, an opinion. opinions can change and that's what Coach and his coaches and his athletes have experimented, that is the best course of action.

if you haven't even been past foundation one, what hope do you have to actually enter basic ring strength prepared? what will you be doing? spinning wheels on pieces of a puzzle that won't get you to a place where they're designed to go. if you're doing ring strength, at one point you'd like to work on crosses? iron cross, maltese, inverted cross, victorian? WITH superior mobility than your average joe.

you should have a taste of it for yourself. try the progressions and ditch what you doing now and use a certain exercise as a gauge to see how much you have progressed. you will see this in the community video, i submitted all my muscle up clips. i have not touched it since december and it's progressively gotten better without focused work. only Foundation.

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Jono

Record a video of your highest false grip pull-up with a neutral/supinated grip, aiming to bring to the sides of your body next to your nipples. Keep your torso and legs straight, vertical  and rigid.

 

Until we see that, we can't see what the problem is

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Jeff Walker

Perhaps.  It will depend upon the quality and volume of your RC work.  

 

If you have truly mastered RC (video please), then your MU difficulties are technical in nature and would be best corrected by following Daniel's advice.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I dont know what the RC mastery looks like.

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Joshua Naterman

I dont know what the RC mastery looks like.

I thought you said you bought F1.

 

My friend, who lives with me and is 6'2, 170 lbs (a true beast, I know) has just been doing the RC/PE1 for what is now 4 sets of 8 reps, and he has already noticed that without training pull ups he now has easy mid-chest to bar pull ups.

 

If you don't know what the mastery looks like, you either don't own the product or you have yet to actually learn anything from what you have paid for. Either way, you are earning your lack of progress.

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Connor Davies

This bears reiterating: it's a muscle-up, not a technique-up.

I lol'd. :lol:

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Christian Sørlie

I dont know what the RC mastery looks like.

Just film yourself climbing a rope. There's more to a rope climb than just being able to climb up without using legs. I can climb a 5m rope, no legs, but am just passing PE3 in F1 RC now.

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Jeff Walker

I do have F1 and F2. I meant that i dont know what the RC final progression is because even at the end of RC in F2 were still not climbing a rope. I will post a video after i take one. I am not bragging, i actually think im not strong enough for this stuff.

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