Another advanced frog stand question

[Justin Rawley]

Like one of the other members who recently posted about frog stand, I can hold the beginning pose for a minute with no problem. However, when I try to do the advanced version and keep my arms straight, I find that I have difficulty getting my knees far enough forward to touch my elbows (I'll end up falling one way or the other). My forearms are proportionally relatively short, but perhaps mine is a balance problem. To try and work around this little difficulty, I have come up with a modified approach that may or may not be kosher; I prop my feet up (with contact only on the toes) on a box to support a tuck planche position, then gradually shift my weight forward until less and less weight rests on my toes. At a certain point, I end up falling forward (I usually have a mat in front of my face), but I can feel the transition from weighted toes to unweighted toes. My hope is eventually to find that sweet spot where the toes are off the support and I'm not falling. Maybe I"m cheating by doing it this way, but I got frustrated with not being able to get my knees to touch without bending my arms. I also find this exercise a little easier using paralellettes.

[matthew.percussion]

It is definitely easier using parallettes. It allows you do balance in a different way because you can use your grip to prevent falling forward or backwards when on floor you would've fallen.

As for the frog stand and the adv. frog stand I never did either of them. I just tried the tuck planche. In some of my earlier videos on YT you can see me unable to hold this position, I was having the dilemma that you seem to be having. I think that supplementing the training you are working on along with psuedo planche push-ups and other pressing exercises will greatly benefit you.

This is how I was able to make the break through to a tuck planche. Purely through this I got my tuck planche, I did no organized planche work for a few months and just tried it one day and could do it.

Hope this helps,

Matthew

[Blairbob]

I used to do the same thing for tuck, straddle and straight and do it off a swiss ball occasionally.

Basically, compared to the frog stand, you are not used to your shoulders being loaded and leaned that much. I''m not sure if the angle at the shoulder is the same for the frog stand or advanced frog stand but it is much harder to hold since the arms are not bent ( I've never measured the angle ).

[George Launchbury]

Hi akrajen,

I'm no physicist, but I would guess that the main difference (as far as the shoulder is concerned) between frog and adv.frog is the length of the lever.

When the arm is bent you are using the forearm somewhat like a vertical strut, and your upper arm is pressing down on it at an angle. In that instance the lever would be the upper arm only, which is half the length of the full arm and therefore much less torque. The angle is slightly less vertical (which would make it harder) but that is offset (maybe more than offset) by some of your weight being held on top of the strut by the thighs. There is also less biceps involvement since the elbow joint is not in danger of hyper-extending.

I'm not quite sure how your knees don't reach your elbows, but I will run through how I get into adv.frog in case that helps.

1. [*:ps4io9vf]crouch on floor and place hands with arms straight
   [*:ps4io9vf]bearing weight mostly on toes, lift hips up slightly and get knees* into position on rear of arm**
   [*:ps4io9vf]lean forward slightly so more weight is on the hands
   [*:ps4io9vf]allow the elbows to bend, which rocks the hips up and back, lifting your toes off the floor
   [*:ps4io9vf]press down with your fingertips, and lean slightly toward them (like handstand hands)
   [*:ps4io9vf]straighten arms until in adv.frog

* knees on arm (in prep for adv.frog) rather than inner knee/thigh (easier version of frog).

** through trial and error find a contact point that results in your hips being the correct height in the end position.

You will probably find that your body will let you apply more force as your balance improves and the neurological over-firing subsides? As far as I can see the only problem with resting your toes on the box is that it lessens the need for balance, and since balance is a skill - the more you can do of it, the better. Read some of the articles on handstands regards hand/wrist conditioning, and the ways in which the hand controls the balance in the handstand.

A ways of measuring the slightly bent arm frog stand (catchy name, eh?) is to set up with your fingertips a specified distance from a soft vertical object, like the arm of a sofa, and try and extend forward so that the top of my head was almost brushing it. The advantages of this ar two fold. One, If you over-balance you don't have to get up again, you just end up leaning slightly on your head and can often shift back onto your hands again with a gentle nod. Two, you get a sense of progression, where you can gradually extend the distance, which requires your arms to be straighter to get near your 'target'.

Does any of that help?

Cheers,

George.

[Justin Rawley]

Thanks George. That does help.

[animalhands]

Hey all,

In my efforts to find the advanced frogstand, I found it was greatly beneficial to start in a real low squat and then place my hands on the ground as close to my feet as possible. From here I would straighten my elbows before I started to lift in the frogstand. This way it felt for me that there was less of a strength issue and more of a balance issue. I would tip forward until my feet were about to come off the ground. This is when I felt like I would fall over. As my feet were about to come up I would contract my abs real hard. This contraction would allow me to lift my hips up as opposed to leaning farther forward.

When I started this, less than a month ago, my advanced frogstand max was about 7 seconds. Yesterday it clocked in at 26. I'm sticking to the steady state cycle and only doing 10 second holds.

Hope this helps and good luck.

AH

[nytennisaddict]

I too have been struggling from transitioning from [frog stance] -> [adv frog stance] -> [tuck planche].

i can hold a [frog stance] for 60s+ fairly easily, but when i tried the [tuck planche] i found that i couldn't keep my arms straight. the interesting thing, is that for 30s, i could suspend my self in a [modified tuck plance] (where i suspend my legs off the ground, and off my arms, but with bent arms), but as you can imagine, the load is distributed in my shoulders and triceps. do you think it's a better to learn to straighten my arms from this [modified tuck planche], or should i just take a step back, and focus on getting the [adv frog stance] technique perfected (with straight arms). It seems like the main issue (i'm guessing because i seem to have the strength based on my ability to do a [modified tuck plance] preventing me from being able to do the [adv frog stance] is balancing myself.

any suggestions/criticisms are greatly appreciated!

-d

[Faraz Ahmed]

Hi,

I was in the same situation and was having difficulty transitioning from the frog stand to the advanced frog stand,

but the tips from George and AH helped a lot and now I am able to do the advanced frog stand although it is for a few seconds only

and my hands are not completely straight,

but I am doing much better than before.

GW