Getting Ripped While Gymnastics Training

[Patrick Patterson]

Photos? No problem. However honestly I don't see that much visual differencebetween the start and now. But the body measurements don't lie. It's definately not a drammatic change, but slow and steady. Don't want to get people's hope's up too high!

[Joshua Naterman]

Photos? No problem. However honestly I don't see that much visual differencebetween the start and now. But the body measurements don't lie. It's definately not a drammatic change, but slow and steady. Don't want to get people's hope's up too high!

I think this is actually a good thing to show. Posting pics every 2-3 months is a great way to show what a simple lifestyle change can do over time.

[Colin Macdonald]

However honestly I don't see that much visual differencebetween the start and now. But the body measurements don't lie. It's definately not a drammatic change, but slow and steady. Don't want to get people's hope's up too high!

The last thing you want to worry about is what other people hope and expect. If you feel good and you do some occasional tests to make sure you're objectively healthy, forget about what every else thinks. I'm lean and muscular, but also quite pale. If I'm in the wrong light, my definition can be washed away pretty quickly, there's a reason body builders all get spray tans to go along with their malnutrition and sever dehydration for their contest prep. So focusing on the measurements and not the mirror is the way to go!

 

I do a non lean gains 16/8 daily fast as well (exercise at 6am, first meal at noon), it's been fantastic for me. I'm able to easily maintain around 10% body fat (I may be sub 10%) with a simple whole food diet and all my health markers and blood work are excellent. And I'm easily able to keep up my 5-6 day a week workout schedule with a steady regular increase in strength (Foundation 1 five days a week and HS1 3 days a week). The research on fasting strongly suggests to me that everyone should practice some form of IF, even people not trying to cut, so I recommend you keep it up even after the 12 weeks are done.

[Patrick Patterson]

Thanks Joshua and thecolin. I think it could be a good thing to show too, not least that it would be an example of a gradual change (it seems most of these things that are posted on the internet seem to show extreme changes, which is good for promotional purposes, but I think can screw with most people's expectations and understanding of the time frame for how things usually/normally progress). As for tracking progress I've relied mostly on body measurements taken weekly under the same circumstances (morning after a rest day, after having some coffee and going to the bathroom). As you say Joshua, it is really about a lifestyle change, not a short-term crash diet or anything like that.

 

I do intend to continue the fasting, as overall it has been a great experience for me. Glad to see it's working out for you, too thecolin.

 

I've got another question for you guys, I was going to make this a seperate post, but as it's just been brought up: many people mention "health markers" and "blood work" in tracking their health... but what specifically are we talking about here, what specific markers? What things to look for in a blood test? What kind of frequency?

[Colin Macdonald]

 

I've got another question for you guys, I was going to make this a seperate post, but as it's just been brought up: many people mention "health markers" and "blood work" in tracking their health... but what specifically are we talking about here, what specific markers? What things to look for in a blood test? What kind of frequency?

It depends how detailed you want to get. The most important things in my opinion are going to looking for a healthy ratio of HDL to LDL (higher HDL relative to LDL), low triglycerides and a low fasting insulin level. Those are the basics that everyone should have under control, if those are all good you're doing pretty well. Testing once every few years is probably enough while you're still young, but I'd double check that with your doctor.

 

But there might be other things that are important from person to person. If you have a family history of certain problems, you may want to get a more detailed look with tests that look into those specific problems. As I've mentioned I'm pretty pale of skin so I don't spend a lot of time under the sun, so I got my vitamin D levels checked in my last tests to see if I should supplement it. And my father has had some serious heart problems, so I keep a close eye on that as well.

 

My wife also does IF and has done some more extensive testing to look at the changes it causes in greater detail. But if you don't have a baseline from before you changed your diet, you don't really have anything to compare it to.

[Patrick Patterson]

Thanks thecolin. It's true I don't have a baseline from before to work with, but I think this is a missing component in understanding my health overall. So the things to look out for would be HDL/LDL, triglycerides, fasting insulin levels. I hear lots of mentions of hormonal levels, especially people getting things like testosterone checked, people talking about dieting throwing off things like your thyroid levels, people (Polloquin epsecially) talking about mineral (magnesium, zinc, etc...) and vitamin levels. So I assume that there is perhaps some standard spectrum of these things that people are looking at, but I have yet to find a clear and simple list of what these things are. It's been a 1.5 year process for me to get ahold of my nutrition and health, and I've taken it slowly, step-by-step, and now it seems this is the one piece of the puzzle which might start to be useful for me, but I can't find and clear and simple information about it anywhere.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) I can't find and clear and simple information about it anywhere.

 

Maybe you want to look a little bit harder!

a search for "usual blood tests" will help you.

Look there: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/services/tests/labtests/default.aspx

and there too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ranges_for_blood_tests

 

there is more info available than you can get your mind around... it all depends how deep down the rabbit hole you want to go.

[Patrick Patterson]

Thanks FredInChina. I have done those searches   , so I do know what all the potential things that can be tested for in blood are, and what the general/common tests are. What I'm trying to figure out is that when I hear people mention (on many health sites, exercise sites, blogs, forums, including here) things about their "health markers" what specific things are they talking about, looking at out of all of those testss and markers? Out of those hundreds of possible things to test for (lipids, blod sugar, enzymes, hormones, etc...) which are the ones that people normally are paying attention to? And is it just blood tests they are looking it? Thanks!

[Joshua Naterman]

The best health markers are :

 

1. a detailed lipid profile: One that tells you the subtypes of HDL and LDL you have, as well as the particle size. Larger particles are better.
2. A1C tests for overall systemic inflammation status, along with how well your body handles the carbohydrates you eat
3. An exercise stress test, preferably a classic Bruce or ramp Bruce protocol.
4. Your physical lifestyle: Do you perform some kind of cardio at least 3 days per week, for at least 70 total minutes if interval training or 150 total minutes if training steady state? Do you resistance train your entire body at least 2-3 times per week?
5. Your nutritional lifestyle: Are you eating primarily whole foods, lots of vegetables, and reasonable portions (for your activity levels)?

There ARE a whole lot more blood tests out there, but these are the most basic, and most important. Depending on your personal condition, there may be other tests that are also very relevant.

[Patrick Patterson]

Excellent, Joshua! This suppletments well with what thecolin said. Regarding the A1C test, from what I've read it's a test mostly for diabetics to measure their blood sugar levels for the past 3 months... but what you are saying is that those numbers could also be used to track the things you mentioned (systematic inflammation and the body's use of carbohydrates), ie. that if the numbers are in the normal range then those factors you mentioned should be fine?

[Joshua Naterman]

Excellent, Joshua! This suppletments well with what thecolin said. Regarding the A1C test, from what I've read it's a test mostly for diabetics to measure their blood sugar levels for the past 3 months... but what you are saying is that those numbers could also be used to track the things you mentioned (systematic inflammation and the body's use of carbohydrates), ie. that if the numbers are in the normal range then those factors you mentioned should be fine?

The efficiency of handling carbohydrate ingestion and overall systemic inflammation seems to be inter-related. We are starting to realize that quite a lot of disease states are influenced, to varying degrees, by inflammatory status, and that is a very loaded term. You could think of it as immune system over-sensitivity, but I'm not sure I can really provide a perfect definition.

 

What you just said is WHY the A1C test is used for diabetics. Blood glucose is great, but it's a snapshot. A1C gives you the big picture. Together, you can see whether better glucose management according to BG tests is matching up with improved A1C numbers.

[Larry Roseman]

Funny, I just had an hbA1c as part of a epidemiological study. It was 5.2 which on their reference range for males, is between 4.8 to 6.5.  It's also called glycated hemoglobin test. Will I live?

 

It represents the long term exposure of RBC to sugar, so it's more representative of your average glucose

level. However, if you've had blood drawn or changed your diet changed recently it may be off. 

 

Higher than average glucose and systemic inflammation are related though it's possible to have the latter

without the former as well...

[Patrick Patterson]

Excellent, thanks to both of you. It's amazing how much a dude can learn here! So what I got so far to look for testing-wise is: lipid profile (including ratios and particle sizes), fasting insulin level, A1C, and a Bruce protocol. Again, just so this doesn't stray into the area of medical advice, these are things that I can look at in order to help guage how my nutrition is effecting my overall health (besides the obvious markers like how I preform athletically, how I feel, body composition, etc...) correct?

[Joshua Naterman]

Funny, I just had an hbA1c as part of a epidemiological study. It was 5.2 which on their reference range for males, is between 4.8 to 6.5.  It's also called glycated hemoglobin test. Will I live?

 

It represents the long term exposure of RBC to sugar, so it's more representative of your average glucose

level. However, if you've had blood drawn or changed your diet changed recently it may be off. 

 

Higher than average glucose and systemic inflammation are related though it's possible to have the latter

without the former as well...

Exactly. There are a lot of inflammatory markers, but excessive inflammation tends to impair glucose tolerance, which will raise your A1C and, I believe, excessive exposure to carbohydrate tends to increase systemic inflammation, but they are not required to happen together.

 

 

HamdiC, medical advice would be prescribing the tests. Nothing prevents us from talking about them, and you don't need a doctor's prescription for any of those if you pay out of pocket, and I have never heard of someone getting medical problems taking the tests at a lab, but you should always ask your doctor if just in case. There are some tests that require a doctor's orders.

[Coach Sommer]

Coming from you, not exactly prone to hyperbole, that's frankly fascinating.

Let's use this as an opportunity to explain why so many mediocre instructors or self designated internet "experts" are constantly caterwauling and carrying on; engaging in an unending chorus of "look at me, look at me."

Hyperbole is only necessary for people whos' reality is lacking distinction and are craving attention from the un-informed. Once you have achieved true success, there is no need to 'shoot your mouth off'. Your results and accomplishments speak for themselves. For those who actually take the time to verify their sources.

For those who are too busy to perform the proper due diligence in verifying their sources of information; as the saying goes ... a fool gets what he deserves.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Jon Douglas]

Hyperbole is only necessary for people whos' reality is lacking distinction and are craving attention from the un-informed.

Well said!

[Colin Macdonald]

Well said!

Nonsense, don't you know that hyperbole is the only way to win the internet? The internet is driven by hyperbole and fuel by rage, without those essential elements, it would just be a great big collecting of adult entertainment.

 

Big technical sounding words are also a really important way to assert your authority on a subject. If your audience is mystified or confused by what you're writing, you must be smarter and therefore correct. It's also important to constantly quote lots of studies to drive home any point you make. Remember that if some scientist somewhere in the world writes something down, it immediately becomes fact for the rest of time. Also, make sure you defend the status quo, truth is subjective and the only important thing is that everyone agrees with what you're saying. By being popular and repeating what everyone else is already saying you can supersede the need for any real world credentials and you can actual change reality to conform with your ideas.

[Connor Davies]

It's also important to constantly quote lots of studies to drive home any point you make.

Too many "experts" use studies the same way drunk people use street lights.  Not for enlightenment, but for support.

[Colin Macdonald]

Too many "experts" use studies the same way drunk people use street lights.  Not for enlightenment, but for support.

It's clear I was being completely sarcastic, right? 

 

Studies have their uses, but nothing can compete with actual experience and a proven track record.

[Jon Douglas]

Nonsense, don't you know that hyperbole is the only way to win the internet? The internet is driven by hyperbole and fuel by rage, without those essential elements, it would just be a great big collecting of adult entertainment.

 

Big technical sounding words are also a really important way to assert your authority on a subject. If your audience is mystified or confused by what you're writing, you must be smarter and therefore correct. It's also important to constantly quote lots of studies to drive home any point you make. Remember that if some scientist somewhere in the world writes something down, it immediately becomes fact for the rest of time. Also, make sure you defend the status quo, truth is subjective and the only important thing is that everyone agrees with what you're saying. By being popular and repeating what everyone else is already saying you can supersede the need for any real world credentials and you can actual change reality to conform with your ideas.

I chuckled until I realised it was true. Then I made myself sad

[fafaedras]

But how can anyone even THINK  that it is possible staying 4-5% bodyfat year-round is beyond me.

 

Bodybuilders who are THE MOST conditioned, THE MOST recognised for their leanness, get to 4-5% bodyfat levels ALSO using severe dehydration. And this bodyfat level is maintained for only A FEW hours, more could kill. Fitness models, being VERY ripped, have 6-8% bodyfat for photoshoots, which is maintained for a few days to few weeks.

 

"measured with calipers, DEXA, BodPod blablablabla"

 

Doesn't matter. Measurements can lie, just like people.

 

Try three different measuring systems and understand that no healthy athlete is 4% bodyfat.

[Joshua Naterman]

... if some scientist somewhere in the world writes something down, it immediately becomes fact for the rest of time...

 

 

Possibly the single greatest line in any forum post on this site!

 

Made my day.

[Colin Macdonald]

Possibly the single greatest line in any forum post on this site!

 

Made my day.

If you want to become a real bro-scientist, it's probably the most important thing to remember. 

[fafaedras]

But science constantly contradicts itself every several decades. That's why observation is better than "fact" most of the time

[Colin Macdonald]

But science constantly contradicts itself every several decades. That's why observation is better than "fact" most of the time

Unfortunately pure observation is subject to all the extremely deep rooted problems out brains have with being even moderately objective. Make no mistake, the scientific method is absolutely essential for rational examination, it's just best not to take every word of every study you come across as gospel.